Listen to Erathoniel ranting on and on in good ol' conservative Christian fashion.
Is it the same as buying a book?
Published on July 17, 2008 By erathoniel In Personal Computing

     When you buy a disk, who owns it? Is it you, the consumer, who paid the money, or is it the company whose software is on the disk? Do you have the rights to use of the software, in exchange for its purchase, or is it an area where the software you paid for is still the company's, therefore you paid good money for the disk and a limited usage?

     When you buy a book, who owns it? You, the consumer, who paid the money, not the company who sold it. You have the rights to use it, without having it locked up, without reciting a code, without using it in only three places. The book you bought is yours to keep. This does not mean that you can copy it, but it means you can use it however you want, with no restrictions.

      That is why I hate DRM with a vengeance. I buy a book, I get hours of enjoyment, and something I can keep. When I buy a disk, I find that I can only use the program in certain ways. I wanna be able to shape my game, tune it to myself. I'm not gonna steal a game, merely re-imagine it, like I do when I read a book. I don't have to follow TOS with a book, no EULA. I get the contents. I can't steal them and re-sell copies, but I can sell my copy to anyone, or use it freely. So, why is a disk different than a book?


Comments (Page 1)
on Jul 17, 2008
Books have EULA's too.  Check under the copyright notice.

The media is yours whether it's a USB drive, CD, paper, etc.  The content is the creators.
on Jul 17, 2008
Because a disc is a disc and a book is a book.

Go to your heart doctor and ask him why a dentist can't do the surgery?  

on Jul 17, 2008

Yea, you're still not allowed to copy the pages of the book and sell it. That's what its like to install the same CD on a bazillion PCs

on Jul 17, 2008

Yes, but you are allowed to use a book anywhere.

Yes, books may have terms to restrict their use, but not overly restrictive. What I don't like is when games lock you into a specific multiplayer network, a specific configuration, and other small, relatively annoying things just to keep profits high.

on Jul 17, 2008
Yes, but you are allowed to use a book anywhere.
That's crazy talk.  You can only run PC games on PC, not your Atari 2600.  Boo hoo. 

Defining the level of restriction that is onerous is a personal issue; not an issue for a vendor.

You have now left the realm of your original post. Good luck with whatever tangents you are heading for. 
on Jul 17, 2008

I don't mind on which platform, I mind the amount of DRM on it.

I wish I could use my games on any computer, without having to call customer support or use up my three installs.

on Jul 17, 2008
Books do not have EULA's in them, what planet do some of you live on? Copyright notification has nothing to do with licensing, they are separate issues entirely.

The only reason you'd ever need to get a license for a book is if you were interested in breeching standard copyright law. A publisher can make allowances for activities that are normally withheld rights. For instance, an educational book will probably have exceptions for educational use that allow copying, or they may give licenses to educators.

I guess this explains why so many morons can't figure out what's wrong with an EULA. Licenses are to GIVE rights, not take them away. All copy rights are already restricted just by stating that it's copyrighted.

You do own the books you buy too. What you lack is the right to copy them, hence the word copyright. There are plenty of things in life where ownership doesn't confer do whatever the hell you want with it rights. The discharging of firearms outside of necessary use is, generally speaking, illegal inside city limits. Your firearm is probably even licensed.
on Jul 17, 2008

Books do not have EULA's in them, what planet do some of you live on? Copyright notification has nothing to do with licensing, they are separate issues entirely.

They aren't different at all.  Both are notifications of what you can or cannot do with the object.

In both cases...the software CD and the book....you purchase the medium, and LIMITED use rights to its content.

There are many 'uses' to which you can put both EQUALLY.

You can read them/load their software/listen to them.

You can stick them under a table to stop a wobble.

You can burn them for warmth.

You can on-sell them to a third party.

Both EULA and Copyright are notifications of conditions under which you are entitled to 'make use' of their content.

Both deny [normally] full, unfettered rights...even a GNU licence has rules/restrictions of use.

Restrictions will vary....they are the perogative of their author/owner and are generally final/absolute.

on Jul 17, 2008
Copyright notification can only release rights normally retained under copyright law, and you do own the book you buy, not just the paper and ink.

EULA's claim whatever bullshit the writers come up with and can include restrictions beyond the legal limitations.

Perhaps you haven't heard of first sale doctrine? Licensing software came about because vendors wanted to further restrict the usage rights of the consumers beyond that of copyright, but any such limitations were illegal. They decided to pass them off as licenses to try and get around the problem. Since the US is the only country I know of where they're being allowed to get away with this shit to start with, you could at least find out the local laws before trying to refute me.
on Jul 17, 2008
Since the US is the only country I know of where they're being allowed to get away with this shit to start with, you could at least find out the local laws before trying to refute me.


Germany is the only country I know of that has declared EULAs illegal - and that only because the buyer cannot read it before purchase. Some countries have passed laws to outlaw specific provisions, but not invalidating them entirely.
on Jul 18, 2008
Since the US is the only country I know of where they're being allowed to get away with this shit to start with, you could at least find out the local laws before trying to refute me.Germany is the only country I know of that has declared EULAs illegal - and that only because the buyer cannot read it before purchase. Some countries have passed laws to outlaw specific provisions, but not invalidating them entirely.


Same in The Netherlands. If the EULA can not be read before or during purchase, it's invalid. Our Civil laws take care of that. Also, any denial/witdrawing(*) from liability by the manufacturer is highly questionable since our laws don't allow that either.

Copyright is still valid though.

(*) Don't really know the proper English term for what I mean. (a manufacturer can't say: 'you can't sue me for liability'.)
on Jul 18, 2008
I wonder if those laws have been challenged - most EULAs are freely available over the internet, so any interested customer could find them if they wanted to. Clearly the EULA can be read before purchase, the customer simply chose not to. An alternative would be to require the retailer to have a paper copy available on request. Even at a large game store that wouldn't be all that many.

If I sold games, I would not allow my products to be sold under those laws. To use WoW as an example, Blizzard would have no option to ban a user in Germany or The Netherlands for any reason whatsoever. The EULA is what gives them the right to remove disruptive users and cheaters. Any such person from these countries could sue - and win! - for being banned.


As for liability, different states have laws regulating what can and cannot be claimed as liability. Most warranties limit liability to direct losses, not incidental or consequential damage. For example, if a computer you use to run a business fails under warranty, the manufacturer is liable for the cost of the computer, but not for any losses your business may suffer as a result of the failure (loss of productivity, loss of critical records, etc).
on Jul 18, 2008
To use WoW as an example, Blizzard would have no option to ban a user in Germany or The Netherlands for any reason whatsoever.


Blizzard's EULA/TOU is presented to the user at account creation and before first login after each patch as well, so I'm not so sure that those laws entirely nullify it.
on Jul 18, 2008
Blizzard's EULA/TOU is presented to the user at account creation and before first login after each patch as well, so I'm not so sure that those laws entirely nullify it.


From my understanding of the German law, the fact that you can't read it before purchase nullifies the EULA entirely, whether you have to agree to it subsequently or not. You did not have to sign it to purchase the game, thus you are not held to it.

Obviously I don't know first hand, as I don't read German, and legalese doesn't translate well under the best of circumstances.
on Jul 18, 2008
To use WoW as an example, Blizzard would have no option to ban a user in Germany or The Netherlands for any reason whatsoever.


Well, actually, the way I interpret it is if the EULA was invalid, Blizzard basically has free reign over the user's account. The EULA tells Blizzard what it can and can't do as much as it does the user, in the "If the user does this, Blizzard can do this" sense. So if the EULA is void, there's nothing stopping Blizzard from doing whatever they please with the account, since the user has none of the rights granted to him under the EULA
Meta
Views
» 3430
Comments
» 20
Sponsored Links