Quoted for truth.

I'm with Loca.  Who's to say that someone's heart can't be changed?

Take, for instance, Jeffrey Dahmer, you know, the human lunch meat guy?  I watched an interview he did before he was killed in prison, and I ended up in tears.  He did HEINOUS things during his life.  But at the end of his life he professed to be a Christian. 

My cousin is also a murderer.  He spent over ten years in prison.  He went in a hateful, spiteful young man, and came out one of the most peaceful people I've ever met.  He totally screwed up, and he screwed up the life of a family forever.  He's different now, though.  When he got out, he actually wanted to go to school to be a minister, although that was out of the realm of financial possibility for him.  He's married and has a wife and a daughter now.  I can't imagine what would have happened had our state been one that supported the death penalty.  Ick.

My uncle also stole $14 million, which he used to pay for two years of my college education.  When you steal that amount of money, it's bound to catch up with you, and of course, he got caught, and was sent to prison for four years.  He missed his daughter's wedding, and the birth of his first two grandchildren.  But while he was in prison, he helped several former drug dealers earn their GED's, learn skills, and he lead Bible studies on a regular basis.  He screwed up, but good can come from evil.

Jesus says that we should forgive an infinite amount of times.  Seventy times seven?  Something like that?  I'm a sinner, too.  Sin is sin.  I don't think God sits up there with an EZ-Grader measuring our sin.  We all fall short of the glory of God, whether we're murderers, embezzlers, or we speed in our cars.  And HE is capable of forgiving anything.

I'm not saying that people cannot reform, merely that they have to pay for their sins.

MarcieMoo,

You bring up an excellent point, that good (some murderers do repent)can come from the death penalty and serving the prison time for the crime.

The courts if they are just will rightly condemn to death those mass murderers like Dahmer who will always, no matter what, be a menace to society. Those same just courts will rightly punish those other murderers who like you described of your uncle by having them do the time for their crime. For many, the common experience a conversion...but historically, nothing is more likely to provoke repentence of hardened criminals than imminent execution.

Take Dismas, the repentant thief on the cross next to Jesus. Scripture tells us that he recognized the Roman authorities right to mete out his due of his actions, but before he died, he was moved to faith in Christ. His conversion was so complete Christ told him he would enter into Paradise.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not advocating that every person who is found guilty of murder should get the death penalty...no, far from it. The State ought not to go to the extreme of executing offenders except in cases of absolute necessity when it would not be possible otherwise to defend society. Added to Dahmer, I'm thinking Ted Bundy type cases.

Our understanding of the death penalty has been wrested out of its proper context...liberals want to abolish it, but look around, at the ever increasing violence...this is no time to deprive society of the means of self-defense and that's exactly what the death penalty, rightly meted out, that is.

Bingo! We all must pay for our sins either in this world or the next. In this case, the death penalty serves as expiation for sin in one whose grave crime has caused him to lose the right to life by the state.

I've always understood this as from a teaching of Pope Pius XII, "Even when it is a question of someone dendemned to death, the state does not dispose of an individual's right to lie. It is then the task of public authority to deprive the condemned man of the good of life, in expiation of his fault, after he has already deprived himself of the right to life by his crime."

I don't believe in Capital Punishment cause to me it's simply an easy way out to getting punished. Sure, most people would not chose to die rather than jail time. But once you are dead (except for the afterlife) that person no longer suffers the punishment that person deserved in this reality. Kinda like a slap in the wrist except it would be the last one.

But then incarceration does not seem to be what it should be now a days. Outdoors freedom seems to be the only thing a person loses when in jail. They still get 3 meals a day, medical attention, TV, sports & exercise, family visits (even private moments with the wife or girlfriend at times). Education is a choice not a requirement. It doesn't seem like a punishment to me while in jail. Too many perks for someone being punished. I thought jail was meant as a deterrent, not a vacation.

That should be "I beleive" since it has yet to be proved that any innocent person was put to death (at least not in the US in the last 30 years - since it was revamped).

But the rest I do agree with you. Besides, it is not an issue with "innocent or guilty" but the "right" to take a life.

OK, I am reading way to much contradiction on this article and Loca is right to ask the above question.

Lula says:



But then Artysim said:



then Lula says:



But previously, Lula had said this:



Which is basically where Loca's question came from, but the Lula decided to explain what she meant when she said:



Now I don't know about you guys/gals, but this here is contradiction to the 10th power.

I think people tend to interpret Gods word based on the current situation and their feelings and not as a whole. And this is why so much contradiction arises from everyones own interpretation of what they believe is Gods word.

CHarlesSC posts:

Of this, Erathoniel laid this question to rest when he said:



In the rest, perhaps I wasn't clear in making my point, nevertheless, it's consistent.

Christ told Pilate (the civil authority) that he got his authority to dole out the death penalty from God. Romans 13 goes on to clarify that. Have you read it for it's only a few verses?

Scripture is meant for all times and ages and will be that way until the end of the world.



I can only answer for myself, and as far as interpreting Scripture, I do my best to only go by what the Church teaches and never on my feelings. I'm still very much a student when it comes to learning Scripture.

As far as our understanding of the death penalty, we certainly can apply our current situations to Scripture.

I quote the answer:

It has nothing to do with the death penalty. There must be a consequence for killing.

My point exactly. People can only be condemned or convicted if they are found committing a crime and proven guilty. If we gonna ask everyone who would judge the accused if the are free of sin then we may as well eliminate the justice system and allow crime to run free.

By that premise, you should be executed, too. 

Scratch a liberals beliefs and they change them to fit the situation.

Ah, but who have I killed? Punishment on Earth is the government's responsibility.

Not exactly. Nobody is free of sin. It was merely that Jesus came to pardon the sinner, to give them a second chance. The problem is that we still need to punish crime.