And doesn't Jesus say not eye for eye but turn the other cheek?  I am absolutely opposed to the death penalty because I know that there have been innocent people murdered by the state. 

As a Christian, I also believe that no one is beyond redemption.  "Vengence is mine saith the Lord."  I believe they will have to face a higher justice at some point.  

I don't think murderers should be out in society where they can harm other people but I think the death penalty is completely and totally wrong. 

Yes, but the state is not an individual. Should we let a killer kill more innocents, or has he not forfeited his rights?

They can be redeemed, yes, but then should not they be willing to pay for their sins?

So you say we pay for their healthcare and food on our dime when it could be spent to help the innocent?

No, a killer should go to prison and lose his ability to hurt other people but not be murdered.



Absolutely, yes. We should not starve or medically neglect prisoners.

So do you believe two wrongs make a right in all cases or just this issue?

Murder is when you kill somebody in cold blood, it's different when they, themselves, are killers.

I never said we should, did I?

I never believe two wrongs make a right.

 

Erathoniel writes:

There is no contradiction between the Old Testament and the New Testament on executing murderers and there is no contradiction between St. Matthew 5:38-48 and the application of civil law to criminals.

Our Lord had two momentous occasions to denounce the death penalty - when Pilate condemned Him to death and as He died on the Cross. Our Lord did not do so. In St. John 19:10-11, Jesus acknowledges that capital punishment is licit. When Pilate asked him, "Don't you know I have the power to crucify You?" Jesus answered, "You would not have such power against me unless it were given to thee from above." In other words, Pilate's power to crucify was from God. The death penalty is therefore sanctioned by God.   

Where is the justice in this?

I agree Locamama but only to a certain degree. We should provide basic medical attention, that's all. This business of our paying for things like sex changes, etc. is asinine.

Not existing ones, mind you. I find that a life sentence would be far worse than a death sentence. It's a death sentence that lasts your entire lifetime.

Of course. We have to feed and clothe and medicate all prisoners, but not do everything they want. They're in prison, not a nursing home.

So what about the time when Jesus prevented a prostitute from being stoned to death? By all rights and according to the law of the day that crowd was legally entitled to kill her. Also, Jesus prevented his followers from using violence to defend him. Therefore, applying your same logic to the situation we should all also be complete pacifists who should not defend ourselves. Pilate, according to the law of the day, was legally entitled to kill Jesus but that does not mean that God sanctions capital punishment!

Stating that Jesus was ok with being killed as a heavenly acceptance of capital punishment is absolutely ridiculous.

And the so-called "god" of the old testament? As Richard Dawkins says:

"is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction; jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sado-masochistic, capriciously malevolent bully"

And I agree.

Did he not ask who among the crowd was innocent, rather than condemning the death penalty?



So Jesus does not like violence, what about it? Also, Jesus was more than perfectly capable of defending himself, if He had wanted to.



What does that have to do with ANYTHING we have been discussing?

Richard Dawkins can hardly be considered a theologian or a neutral observer. You seem to be fond of these "neutral observers" like Nietzsche. If people had faith in God, Richie over there wouldn't have a job.

Artysim,

Read again Christ's answer to Pilate's question. it does mean that God sanctions capital punishment.

Here's the actual passage:
St.John 19:10-11,

"Pilate therefore said to Him,"You will not speak to me? Do you not know I have the power (authority) to release you and power to cricify you?" Jesus answered him, "You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above;.."

Christ has told Pilate that all authority on earth comes from His Father (God).

This means in the last analysis even if people talk about the authority of a state or a nation, such authority is never absolute; It is only relative, being subject to the absolute authority or sovereignty of God. No human law can be just and therefore binding in conscience, if it does not accord with Divine Law.

Christ was clearly telling Pilate that his authority to pronounce the death penalty by crucifixion was from God the Father.

You'll get a better idea that God is the source of all authority by reading Romans 13:1, "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God and the authorities that exist are appointed by God."

The three spheres of delegated authority in human society established by God are the family, the Church, and civil government. So this is obviouosly a divine truth that God formed civil government by the delegation of His own authority, therefore the authority contained in civil government is God's authority. Christ said Pilate had the authority to crucify HIm given from God Himself. Here, there is no other way to understand this other than God sanctions the death penalty.

Read on to Romans 13:3, "For rulers are not a terror to good works, but a terror to evil..."

I think the death penalty justly meted out is a terror to evil.

I try to answer this in my last comment.

Ah, thanks.

So do you think that some evil regimes that force abortions (China), commit genocide (Rwanda), murder, rape and torch villages (Sudan) etc. are in authority from God?

No.

As far as I know these are cruel, sadistic , atheistic regimes and misuse of authority.

Let me restate...for this goes to what I mean when I said, in the last analysis even if people talk about the authority of a state or a nation, such authority is never absolute; It is only relative, being subject to the absolute authority or sovereignty of God.

It's the authority itself that comes from God and such authority is not absolute authority since it is delegated to humans who are capable of misusing it (and therefore the power of God is not behind it.) Each user is accountable to God for his administration of the authority he holds and he's going to be held to a higher standard than the person who holds none..."to whom much is given, much is required". St.luke 12:48.

The one who is entrusted with that authority exercises it in a manner God intened, the authority has full weight and power of God behind it. To oppose it is to oppose God. Read on in Romans and it explains it.