Listen to Erathoniel ranting on and on in good ol' conservative Christian fashion.
Published on July 18, 2008 By erathoniel In World War II

Cactoblasta said: "Humanism is a democratic and ethical life stance, which affirms that human beings have the right and responsibility to give meaning and shape to their own lives. It stands for the building of a more humane society through an ethic based on human and other natural values in the spirit of reason and free inquiry through human capabilities. It is not theistic, and it does not accept supernatural views of reality."

This is the statement of the International Humanist and Ethical Union, a peak body for humanist groups worldwide.

     AUTHOR'S NOTE: I thank Cactoblasta for giving me this wonderful bit of information, as it goes exactly with what I was planning to say.

           With no defined compass, no direction, man will not know if it is wrong to steal, kill, or destroy. Afterall, should not the weakest be eliminated so that only the strong remain? After all, the Nazi's were trying to bring about a better humanity by eugenics, to speed Evolution along. Is it no small wonder that they sterilized 400,000 people before the war even started? They also killed an estimated 200,000 of their own people for such reasons as being handicapped, homosexual, or religious, as a eugenics program. This is not the Holocaust, either. This is the Aktion T4 eugenics system. The Holocaust claimed six million Jewish lives alone, not counting other "inferior" races.


Comments
on Jul 18, 2008

We are not born with morals, this has been scientifically proven by a few very immoral acts. There have been cases where children were raised with little to no human contact even kept in cages. The ones that are rescued never develop the same sense of right and wrong that we have. For obvious reasons we cannot repeat this but it does show that we learn morality after birth.  

We are born completely dependent on others for our survival and learn very soon what we like and what we don’t like to have done to us. Obviously food is good, touch is good, environmental comfort is good but because we cannot provide any of these things for ourselves we learn what behaviors will get others to provide these and other things for us. The lesson learned is the foundation for what behaviorist call reciprocal altruism. A favor or kindness done today brings a favor or kindness tomorrow.

Empathy is the foundation on which morality is built upon. It is the understanding that what hurts me will feel the same way to you and our helplessness at birth is key to developing this empathy. This helpless dependence on others is a hard lesson learned right out of the womb for many creatures. In contrast creatures that are self sufficient at birth have no interest in their offspring at all, except maybe for a quick meal. they’ve never made a connection between them and their younger versions and hence never empathized with them. 

This is all you need to develop basic moral programing, a period of total dependence, the ability to make the reasoned connection too that period and an instinct for self preservation. Emotions are not even necessary for basic morality and are one of the things that can cause us to act immoral.

This period of dependence is also responsible for the perceived innocence of a child and is almost identical to the perceived innocence of a dog. It only requires two things, a lack of understanding of the world around them and a level of dependence. That’s why we like dogs so much, that perceived innocence last all their lives because they never gain that much knowledge and they’re always dependent on us. In humans the more independent a child becomes the more their perceived innocence disappears and knowledge is the final destroyer.

What these “what’s happening to our kids” group fail to understand is this is that’s all happening to our kids. This period of innocence just isn’t lasting as long as it used to. Religion can’t do anything about this short of artificially stagnating children so they remain innocent and ignorant longer.

As a society we are far more moral than we were just a few hundred years ago. If you doubt this your in serious need of a history lesson. Do you think anyone would care if we were torturing prisoners 400 years ago? We tolerate far less injustice now and while from a religious standpoint, sex being immoral and all, we could seem less moral most people don’t think any kind of consensual sex is immoral.

 

on Jul 18, 2008

We are not born with morals, this has been scientifically proven by a few very immoral acts. There have been cases where children were raised with little to no human contact even kept in cages. The ones that are rescued never develop the same sense of right and wrong that we have. For obvious reasons we cannot repeat this but it does show that we learn morality after birth.

I'd beg to differ that such a method doesn't prove that we have no morals, simply that they can be broken.

We are born completely dependent on others for our survival and learn very soon what we like and what we don’t like to have done to us. Obviously food is good, touch is good, environmental comfort is good but because we cannot provide any of these things for ourselves we learn what behaviors will get others to provide these and other things for us. The lesson learned is the foundation for what behaviorist call reciprocal altruism. A favor or kindness done today brings a favor or kindness tomorrow.

Nonsense. I've done plenty of good things and recieved nothing back. If I wanted something, I'd get it directly.

Empathy is the foundation on which morality is built upon. It is the understanding that what hurts me will feel the same way to you and our helplessness at birth is key to developing this empathy. This helpless dependence on others is a hard lesson learned right out of the womb for many creatures. In contrast creatures that are self sufficient at birth have no interest in their offspring at all, except maybe for a quick meal. they’ve never made a connection between them and their younger versions and hence never empathized with them.

How is empathy morality?

This is all you need to develop basic moral programing, a period of total dependence, the ability to make the reasoned connection too that period and an instinct for self preservation. Emotions are not even necessary for basic morality and are one of the things that can cause us to act immoral.

All you need to develop a sense of right or wrong is to be fed?

This period of dependence is also responsible for the perceived innocence of a child and is almost identical to the perceived innocence of a dog. It only requires two things, a lack of understanding of the world around them and a level of dependence. That’s why we like dogs so much, that perceived innocence last all their lives because they never gain that much knowledge and they’re always dependent on us. In humans the more independent a child becomes the more their perceived innocence disappears and knowledge is the final destroyer.

You say that like everyone likes dogs. How is this, however, pertinent to morality?

What these “what’s happening to our kids” group fail to understand is this is that’s all happening to our kids. This period of innocence just isn’t lasting as long as it used to. Religion can’t do anything about this short of artificially stagnating children so they remain innocent and ignorant longer.

I'd beg to differ. I find kids behave badly younger because we are born with an internal desire, and they lack any sense of direction.

As a society we are far more moral than we were just a few hundred years ago. If you doubt this your in serious need of a history lesson. Do you think anyone would care if we were torturing prisoners 400 years ago? We tolerate far less injustice now and while from a religious standpoint, sex being immoral and all, we could seem less moral most people don’t think any kind of consensual sex is immoral.

We're also much more religious than long ago (at least in the sense of common-man high-knowledge religion). We have also become like dogs to our desires.

on Jul 18, 2008

I'd beg to differ that such a method doesn't prove that we have no morals, simply that they can be broken.

They’re not teaching them to behave immoral just depriving them of the necessary stimulus to develop morals.

Nonsense. I've done plenty of good things and recieved nothing back. If I wanted something, I'd get it directly.

Reciprocal altruism is the beginning lesson that leads to empathy, once you can empathize it’s not about expecting to get something in return for your kindness, it’s doing a kindness because you like it when others are kind to you.

How is empathy morality?

Because when you empathize with someone that means your putting yourself into their shoes. You would not steal from yourself or do anything to harm yourself would you? Empathy allows us treat others like we would want others to treat us.

All you need to develop a sense of right or wrong is to be fed?

Yes dependence is the beginning of basic morals and the foundation for learning wright and wrong.

You say that like everyone likes dogs. How is this, however, pertinent to morality?

Ok not everyone likes dogs but if your normal and like dogs, this is one of the big reasons why.

It’s pertinent to the next paragraph which is pertinent to the morality of children.

I'd beg to differ. I find kids behave badly younger because we are born with an internal desire, and they lack any sense of direction.

We’re born with the same basic instincts that any other animal is born with, nothing more. Does scripture tell you we’re born to be bad and only religion can teach you us to resist? Imagine that, sounds like a product advertisement to me. You won’t even acknowledge that kids losing their innocence of the world sooner might cause the problems we’re seeing now?

We're also much more religious than long ago (at least in the sense of common-man high-knowledge religion). We have also become like dogs to our desires.

People had much greater religious conviction back then, religion has become a very small part of our hectic lives. A very religious person today goes to church every Sunday and that’s pretty much it.

Fulfilling ones desires, as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else is only immoral from a religious sense.