What I don't understand is why god is not to blame for everything satan did as when he made him he knew what he would do and made him in such as way so that he would do those things.  Not could but would or are you saying that god didn't really know what was going to happen when he made the angels etc?

I design a computer program that will destroy the worlds banking system it is my fault.  We can't make a being with the certainty of what he/she will do but when god makes one surely he does know?

Again, I plead free will principle. They decided that they were better than their master, and so rebelled.

 

It's like blaming your mother for giving you birth when you end up in jail. Is it your fault or your mother's fault that you made bad choices that put you in the slammer?



No, God knew because he knows the future. He knew what we would do given the chance. He knew but decided it was worth it to create us or would be worth it in the end. He has a plan all mapped out. In the end it will all make perfect sense. God knew what we were going to do before we did it and that's why he planned for a Savior from the get go. Like I said before, he created a safety net knowing we were going to take this fall.

But their thought processes were put there by god.  He programmed them to make those choices with their free will.  The free will that used the thoughts and ideas they were programed to have and the personality they were made to have.  The outcome was never in doubt after god made them to react in the way they did and exercise their free will in the way that god decided they would when he made them. 

You are a computer? The difference between a computer and a human is that a human does not always do what it's programmed to do. God gave us free will to make decisions, even though He knows the outcome. It's still us doing it. I mean, look at what God did. He programmed us, if you will, to need a savior. But then, some people don't even believe this savior exists. Did God program them not to believe? No, he programmed them to believe it, but they, of their own free will, resist that programming.

Tell me at least one way this doesn't work.

See, it's been theorized that though time flows one dimensionally for us, God has multiple dimensions of time, allowing Him to see it and interact with it, but be seperate from it.

I must say, I can't help but admire your tenacity and ingenuity. However, if ever there was a case crying out for Occam's Razor (the principle that "All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best"), then this is it.

The existence of neither God nor Satan is necessary in order to 'explain' what happens in this world, 'bad' or 'good'. Indeed, those very terms are merely labels we humans choose to pin on events; there is no evidence they warrant such evaluation. (Indeed, we don't always even agree on which of the two boxes to put them in!)

To put it crudely, rather than being intrinsically good or bad, why should events that occur in the universe not just simply BE? It is much less complicated and convoluted to explain the workings of the universe in terms of it being fundamentally purposeless.

Of course, this kind of explanation upsets people who prefer to believe in an underlying higher purpose or principle. That, of course, is something they are free to do - and this phenomenon too is entirely consistent with consciousness in a meaningless universe.

and I think this is simple. We examine our lives and determine which direction it's coming from. If I overeat and then have health problems because of either excess weight or eating the wrong foods, I can only point to my own self for my problems. It's not God or the devil who made me get sick.

If, as a Christian, I'm not living the life I profess, and get terribly sick as a result of food poisoning I would most likely know God is trying to get my attention. My spirit would be troubled.

If, as a Christian on task, I have an opportunity to do something for God like maybe give a bible study to a group of women and fall terribly sick by food poisoning, then I would most likely be led to believe Satan is putting an obstacle in my path to stop me. Peter wrote that if we are going to suffer, at least make sure you're suffering because of righteousness sake.



because I believe there is more than meets the eye. There is a whole segment you're forgetting. You're content to only look at the physical world. I know there is a spiritual component as well and am very aware of it. You are more than just a physical being. Your physical being is just your outside tent so to speak. It's just a covering. The real you is your inside, your spirit. Too often, many forget that and are content only living in the physical.



First of all, it doesn't upset me because we all have to find our way. Second of all it has nothing to do with me "preferring to believe this" I guess it's hard to explain, but I know this to be true. It's called living in the spirit. When you live in the spirit you do "see" differently. That's why Christ spent so much time talking about those who have eyes to "see." All thru the gospels this struggle was evident. Many just couldn't "see" and understand what he was talking about because they were so wrapped up in the physical world.

There's much more than meets the eye.

This is what you believe, no doubt. My point is merely that neither this belief - nor any of the increasing levels of detail that appear to be required in order to sustain it in terms of any and all underlying causes or meanings for what we see going on around us - are necessary in order to explain the world.