and that's what's important isn't it?   

 

Hardly important at all except for the sadness of the truth of it.

oooooooohhhhhh but that's ok......because you're not a proponent of truth.....  

Yeah, define truth for me, Ock, that's something I never got the secular standpoint of.

If what I believe leads me to correctly predict the workings of reality and continues to do so, then with each correct prediction I come closer to knowing a truth. This is the scientific standpoint. Mathematicians believe that the entire world can be broken down and explained in quantifiable terms. Thus, ultimate truth comes from accounting for every single variable in the universe and formulating everything that will happen. Philosophers believe that the truth can be reached through reasoning.

Contradicting these paths, theologians think truth comes from correctly interpreting a book.

I never said that statement. Evil is disobedience to God. That's what evil is to a Christian. Working together to make the world a better place might be the will of God, and then it would be a sin to NOT do so.

Lula posts: #57


OCK POSTS: #58

OCK POSTS: #90

OCK,

You're trying to have it both ways...again.

Of my using the example of the evil of abortion, you thank me for exactly proving your point and then, when you realize there is no wiggle room concerning the absolute objective truth that abortion is evil and therefore wrong, you now say I'm using abortion to discredit your point.


OCK POSTS:



OCK POSTS #58

Is abortion killing a baby? Yes.
Is that belief objective? Yes.
Is that belief provable? Yes.

Is killing a baby in the womb an intolerable evil act? Yes.

OCK POSTS #58

Therefore, abortion is objectively, provable evil.



OCK POSTS: #46


Evil is tolerating the intolerable. Those who believe in God's absolute, "thou shalt not kill" will not tolerate the intolerable.

<---not Mormon, NOR elderly. I was just making a rather salient point.

I admit to stockpiling food stores because of how I was raised. Had I been raised in any other faith with the same ethic, I'm sure it would have stayed with me. Yeesh, talk about stretching it!

My point was that even though I already stockpile food, I'm hardly unique in that area!

Christianity is the only religion which claims not only that God revealed something of Himself to mankind, including a partial account of Creation according to Genesis, but that He also entered into the world (God Incarnate) as a human being in the Person of Jesus CHrist. and then allowed Himself to be humiliated, suffer and be put to death, all out of love for His estranged subjects in order to satisfy the infinite justice of GOd who was offended by Original Sin. Only God could have made the reparation that has an infinite value but only as man could He have suffered, since in His divine nature He is implacable that is, He's incapable of undergoing change, e.g. suffering.

The concept of Special Creation reinforces the Christian view that objective truth does exist, and each human being has been given a specific nature i.e. one made in the image and likeness of God. Just as the laws of nature clearly have objective existence, objective truth can be shown to exist such as 2 + 2 can never equal other than 4.

The idea that man may create his own truth by exercising his free will is fallacious. Rather, truth exists outside of man and has to be discovered. In the experiences of life through which each individual passes, we can observe that there are moral absolutes which exist(abortion is evil is one). A set of objective truths is therefore essential to enable human beings to discern truth and realities.

This article is now about bunnies with pancakes on their head.





~Zoo

 

I'm not trying to have anything, actually.  You don't know my own personal stance on abortion, though you seem to assume you do.  I never argued one way or another about whether or not abortion is killing a baby.  Some people don't think it's a baby at a certain point in its development.  I won't judge that - I'll just recognize that some group of people hold to that belief.  That's all that is required to know for what I am trying to point out.

 

When I said that you were proving my point, I was referring to the fact that you are 100% intolerant of any idea that doesn't line up with your own.  Belief in God - ANY God or Gods - is NOT objective - if it was, then faith would not be required.  Maybe you just don't understand what "objective" means.  Here's some help.  These are the parts of the definition from dictionary.com of "objective" as an adjective (which is how I am using it.)

 

4.	being the object or goal of one's efforts or actions.

5.	not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion.

6.	intent upon or dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book.

7.	being the object of perception or thought; belonging to the object of thought rather than to the thinking subject (opposed to subjective).

8.	of or pertaining to something that can be known, or to something that is an object or a part of an object; existing independent of thought or an observer as part of reality.

 

It is "evil," in my opinion, to try in any manner to enforce on others any belief you hold that stems from a belief in a subjective doctrine.  But that's what you want, isn't it?  You want everyone to agree that your belief is THE belief so that the world will behave in the way that YOU think it should behave.  Lemme tell ya - that isn't worshipping God.  That's playing God.

Zoo, you're lucky those bunnies are too cute to delete. Darn my lolcat addiction.

Second, Ock, I'm not trying to enforce my belief system's ultimate righter-than-youness, I am simply debating my point.

Wow! You must really come down hard on those who push Islam then.

Islam in other parts of the world does a far better job of being insane than Christianity does here. I would not even be arguing with you if I lived in Iran. God bless this free country.